Is this a native, is this present anywhere in the wild?

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:50 pm

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:38 pm

no native but a mediterranean sp. present in the wild stretches it a bit unless you count the walls of Argotti as wild. at least its naturalized there.

RB · Post by RB » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:08 am

That's what I thought too, I never saw this in the wild but it looks funnily familiar (maybe from Sicily) and W@K seem to give the impression that the "wild" ones are escapees from Mistra Village, although it was not perfectly clear.

Mentioning Sicily, now that is also a very interesting place, especially above 1,000 meters where one can see vegetation which is hardly "Mediterranean" in type.

RB

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:40 am

yes, should be one of the most interesting med islands. i never was there but i will definitely go some day.
even in most med countries the med vegetation is confined to a fairly narrow strech along the coasts. i think Malta is the only country having a med climate everywhere because its a med island without tall mountains. most bigger med islands including Sicily have even alpine vegetation on the mountaintops.

IL-PINE · Post by **IL-PINE** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:22 pm

viewtopic.php?t=315&highlight=medicago+arborea

RB · Post by RB » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:50 pm

Thanks Pine.

RE sicily Sdravko, it is a VERY interesting and beautiful place. I went about 3 times in the Nebrodi mts north of Etna, plenty of forested area and lots lots lots of beautiful wild plants. I never went there for the plants (probably for the food, and no I didn't eat the plants except cultivated

) but it's great.

Etna is of course something else, going up to 3.3Km elevation, you see very differing vegetation and on the lava, depending on the age, you see the regeneration of plant life in various stages.

RB

RB · Post by RB » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:58 pm

More pics - Take a look at the agave @ Taormina - that is massive! This can not be ordinary A americana, apart from the exaggerated size, look at the flower spike how knobbly it is.

IL-PINE · Post by **IL-PINE** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:13 pm

wow! Beautiful

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:37 pm

yeah, i will definitely try to make it to sicily next year. about the agave, definitely one of the biggest i ever saw. can not say anything definite, only that a americana can be very variable.

robcar · Post by **robcar** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:41 pm

A truely huge Agave - From the taxonomic point of view cacti and other succulents including Agave can be rather confusing - since they are very popular plants among collectors, there has been a tendency (and still is to a certain extent) for various authors to give new names (species, sub-species or varieties) for every minor variation associated with a particular population - in the case of Agave there seems to be a number of named species in cultivation that are of unknown orgin and are probably variants of other species.

Nice Sicilian orchids too RB - one of your pictures seems to be O. lutea - does anyone know what the paler cream coloured orchid is?

RB · Post by RB » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:25 pm

Re the agave, in this instance I would say that the opposite is true - Different species possibly being given the same "accepted" name.

I think this occurs mainly with species commonly in cultivation where gardeners, etc use the Latin name rather than the "common" name, and they tend not to be so fussy. So anything that looks like an agave is an agave, and if it's americana, (that is if they bother with the species name at all) then they all are, since for them unlike for scientific folk, who cares that it's slightly bigger/smaller/wider/greener etc than something which looks like it.

For me that agave is considerably different to the sp in Malta, again, just look at the flower spike which was probably about 20cm thick, and the "knobs" on it (the buds for the branchlets or whatever they are called) are highly exaggerated.

And the "model" is not far shy off 6' so there's your scale

Here's some more Sicilian orchid pics for you to enjoy ID'ing - just don't ask me

RB

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:07 pm

wow. when do i need to go there to see all that stuff?

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:12 pm

the pale orchid could be orchis provincialis or any of several orchis or dactylorhiza sp. impossible to be absolutely sure from just a pic.

RB · Post by RB » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:27 am

Late april - late may.

Due to the elevation, I calculate that it is about one to one and a half months cooler than here, if that makes any sense to you!

RB

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:29 pm

the good thing is that with a tall mountain you always find interesting elevations. but i think ill try to make it april/may.

Post by **MWP admin** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:47 pm

Are you going to be in Sicily Sdravko?? If so tell me so that I shall make a MWP event for a weekend to meet/join you in Sicilly!

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:49 pm

if icome anyway near you you will know. but considering you have the flu ill stay away for some time.

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:18 am

I may be interested, if of course this is amenable to being a "group" thing.

I love Sicily and would gladly go there at every opportunity.

RB

jackpot · Post by **jackpot** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:35 pm

at least 1 contribution from me

jackpot · Post by **jackpot** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:37 pm

sorry- here is the contribution

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:06 pm

Stunning photo! Agave may not be native, but their sculptural beauty makes one forgive all their sins (of which there are not many).

Post by **MWP admin** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:13 pm

JP, really nice background somehow botanically spoiled by an unwanted alien

- Great photo for the non-botacinal eyes!!

WOW Sicilly is really a green paradise. Shall we go in the Easter holidays guys? I think I can do it, Robcar is interested, RB also, others are welcomed. 3 days-5days-7days?!

Thanks to all for sharin

(its amazing how some topics change subject!)

jackpot · Post by **jackpot** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:01 pm

RB: your pics:

DSCF0836.JPG & DSCF0839.JPG: should be Dactylorhiza romana (tiny bracts)
DSCF0512.JPG DSCF0511.JPG: should be Dactylorhiza sambucina (larger leafy bracts)
DSCF0845.JPG: Cyclamen repandum
DSCF0589.JPG: could be the Sicilian variety of Orchis morio (the upper petals are at least little darker veined)
DSCF0518.JPG: Aquilegia spec. (sp. is possibly closer related to the thalictifolia/alpina agg.)
DSCF0843.JPG: looks like Anemone appenina
DSCF0825.JPG: belongs to the Primula vulgaris group

jackpot · Post by **jackpot** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:11 pm

let us change the MWP title to SWP

Here a taste with 3 non-aliens, absolutely characteristic for the 2222m elevation of the Etna:
Astragalus siculus and my unbeatable favorite, the community of
Petrorhagia saxifraga ssp. saxifraga with Poa violacea ssp aetnensis.

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:16 pm

Easter is too early for the best display. It's at the beginning of April next year, and it's the weather equivalent of mid-Feb here.

At the earliest, is end April, risking bad weather and rain, better May up to first 2 weeks of June.

At end April, at about 1000 meters, it is necessary to have the heating on in the accommodation, and the roses are still with buds.

RB

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:22 pm

As your photos show JP, the environment at that altitude on Etna is stunningly beautiful and out of this world, the contrasting colours on the black lava dust really jump out at you.

BTW re April - end April (28) at 2000m, there were still large patches of SNOW.

RB · Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:24 pm

28 - for some reason it got converted into the shady guy.

Post by **MWP admin** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:39 pm

Thanks JP for the IDs

May is a bit difficult to know, considering a little chance I have of some opportunities of work in Scandinavia related to flowers and digital technology.

Robcar would be busy at school

We keep it in mind and we see!

Sdravko · Post by **Sdravko** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:48 pm

i would like to come if i can, but i would like to stay 1-2 weeks. but if you go for less time i will have to be on my own the rest of the time.

pic 0836 is no Dac romana (romana has no spots on lip)
pic 0843 is A hortensis (3 linear leaves on stem)