Website - Java applets

Sumbit requests of what you would like to see in the website.

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RB
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Website - Java applets

Post by RB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:56 pm

Just my personal thoughts, but I would much rather not have any java applets on any of the pages as these slow the page load for 2 reasons:

The actual files have to all be downloaded;
Java VM has to be started on one's computer.

What is Java VM?

Well Java is both a programming language and a platform, ie like Windows.

So Java does not run on Windows, but Windows contains a Java Runtime Environment/Virtual Machine, which you can call an operating system within an operating system in a way, so that you can "run" Java within Windows.

Each time you run Java, such as in an applet, the VM has to be started. Think in terms of having to load into ram and run a separate program just to see a pic on a page.

In any case even the grey box you get on the page is ugly :cry:

If you want some of the effects of Java such as the fading pics, use .swf files (Flash), IE has for years come shipped with the plug-in, files are smaller, nothing to start up, and very easy to use for basic effects, probably a simple .swf creator is a better bet for such stuff than Macro's Flash program.

BTW Sdravko you can't eat applets, sorry, but I wish you could :D

RB

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Post by MWP admin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:45 pm

I am downloading the 820Mb Macromedia Flash for this particular reason during the last 15 days.

How easy is to make fading pics or picture effects?

I dont like much Java too, but quite easy programming. Also it is not that bad as you are saying, it will not have any undesirable effects on modern PC (3 years ols)

Can you convert java to swf?
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Post by RB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:00 pm

Well my pc is 2 yrs old ;-) with half a gig or ram, no not any "undesirable effects" but I guess we're all after the content, as is any web visitor, and anything that gets in the way of getting it fast is less than welcome.

It's easy to create fade effects with flash, relatively that is, in the sense that yes it is easy but the prog is full-on pro and does have a learning curve until you understand what you're supposed to be doing and where everything is (menu items).

For simple stuff I would not really bother with MM Flash and instead download any of the many free programs that can do this for you, I used to know one but forgot, any search will give you results.

No you can't convert Java to SWF and you don't really need to.

Quite frankly a content based site does not even need Flash or any fancy stuff.

If you want randomly rotating pics on the homepage for example, ie a different pic each time someone visits the page, JavaScript is plenty fine. Used to good effect here: http://www.heritagemalta.com

RB

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Post by robcar » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:12 pm

Is this a new section on ICT :?: - I cannot understand a single word of what both of you are writing, assuming that it is in English -why not remain in the spirit of the MWP website and stick to botany - even the confusion of ever changing scientific names, taxonomic relationships, synonyms etc is far more simple than this stuff you are (I assume) discussing :? :? :? :? :?

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Post by MWP admin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:21 pm

Errr.. you are right robcar, but I dedicated just one topic for website related affairs ! So please excuse our jargon!

:roll:
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Post by MWP admin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:37 pm

RB wrote:Well my pc is 2 yrs old ;-) with half a gig or ram, no not any "undesirable effects" but I guess we're all after the content, as is any web visitor, and anything that gets in the way of getting it fast is less than welcome.

The java picture-FX is only in one of the pages, the introduction page, from the 2500+ webpages the maltawildplants hold! I feel it is cool to have something flashy just in the intro page as it is nice that when you date a girl for the first time you go elegant!
RB wrote: It's easy to create fade effects with flash, relatively that is, in the sense that yes it is easy but the prog is full-on pro and does have a learning curve until you understand what you're supposed to be doing and where everything is (menu items).
I am a fast learner in IT, more than botanical names!!!! :oops:
RB wrote: For simple stuff I would not really bother with MM Flash and instead download any of the many free programs that can do this for you, I used to know one but forgot, any search will give you results.
Would be nice to receommend one or two when you are on the workbench PC. I assume they save the work in swf?
RB wrote: No you can't convert Java to SWF and you don't really need to.
OK
RB wrote: Quite frankly a content based site does not even need Flash or any fancy stuff.
I agree, but general public (at least in Malta) are a bit with the mentality of local feasts or 'look at my car' rather than 'look inside my car'

RB wrote: If you want randomly rotating pics on the homepage for example, ie a different pic each time someone visits the page, JavaScript is plenty fine. Used to good effect here: http://www.heritagemalta.com
I was planning to have a different title pic in all pages according to season, apart from dozens of ideas that come and go in my mind but I am passing a demotivating period for MWP lately.

I cant image how a multi millionaire company dont have say Lm200 to sponsor such an educational website and have 10x as much to sponsor say a party?!


It is not easy when you have a family to spend xx hours of time for something that does not earn money instead of spending those same hours on something which brings bread home. You start asking Quo vadis?
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Post by RB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:47 pm

Well for me a Corolla is made by Toyota, a Fruit is something that looks like a banana or apple but not a tomato, Achene is something that your back occasionally does, a Capsule takes you to the moon, annual is my car's insurance, Bud is best chilled, drupe is what you get if you drink too many Bud's, Hoary is a woman who does not shave, Liana generally does, a Pistil is useful for when you get sick of Liana and on the Spur of the moment decide to Shoot her from the Hip, then you'd have to do a Runner, or take the Samara, maybe Scale a wall to ensure your 'Scape, else you might end up in Solitary or worse where you might meet that Bisexual Nut "Spike" Cilia, who lacks Style but not the Gall to ask to see your Tuber and show you his 'Aereole, without turning off the Bulb, and that will leave you in a Whorl, especially if it becomes a Habit.

And then you'd have to live with the Stigma.

See, even botanical stuff is not understood by everyone :lol:

RB

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Post by RB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:48 pm

the above is for Robcar but MWP is very quick :wink:

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Post by MWP admin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:56 pm

You are incredible RB :lol: :lol: Have you been a poetic writer !
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Post by RB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:08 pm

MWP admin wrote:

The java picture-FX is only in one of the pages, the introduction page, from the 2500+ webpages the maltawildplants hold! I feel it is cool to have something flashy just in the intro page as it is nice that when you date a girl for the first time you go elegant!
Well not really, in the main a site like this is all about the content, I don't think that people come here for that sort of stuff. I don't mean don't make the site attractive, but not at any cost. Personally I just zoom through the homepage because apparently I have to, to visit the forum, and I hate waiting for the damn applet to load, even for 3 seconds.
RB wrote: For simple stuff I would not really bother with MM Flash and instead download any of the many free programs that can do this for you, I used to know one but forgot, any search will give you results.
MWP admin wrote: Would be nice to receommend one or two when you are on the workbench PC. I assume they save the work in swf?
Yes, .swf.

RB wrote: Quite frankly a content based site does not even need Flash or any fancy stuff.
MWP admin wrote: I agree, but general public (at least in Malta) are a bit with the mentality of local feasts or 'look at my car' rather than 'look inside my car'
I disagree, in the sense that there is no difference between a Maltese internet user and someone somewhere else, except maybe if he/she is 10 years old and just logged in for the first time.
MWP admin wrote: I was planning to have a different title pic in all pages according to season, apart from dozens of ideas that come and go in my mind but I am passing a demotivating period for MWP lately.

I cant image how a multi millionaire company dont have say Lm200 to sponsor such an educational website and have 10x as much to sponsor say a party?!

It is not easy when you have a family to spend xx hours of time for something that does not earn money instead of spending those same hours on something which brings bread home. You start asking Quo vadis?
Obviously, however you must appreciate that companies sponsor stuff only if it offers them a return. Either publicity in the form of advertising/increased sales, very unlikely option with MWP, we'd need to be looking at 500+ unique site visitors daily to even begin considering, else they sponsor stuff to be "socially responsible" or whatever that technically is called, but ultimately it is also about getting into people's good books and, yet again, the publicity.

Something like when banks sponsor the restoration of some historic building, etc. This latter scenario may be viable, but don't expect that anyone is going to wave a chequebook at you just because you ask for sponsorship. The first thing they'll ask is "why" and then "where's the money going" and believe me, those questions are not easy to answer.

At the moment MWP is your personal hobby, a great place to visit, but taking it beyond is a jump across the ocean. Not to dissuade you, on the contrary I wish you best of luck wherever you wish to take this project, but just to prepare yourself properly.

RB

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Post by MWP admin » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:36 pm

What's more advertising than a permanent banner in all main pages and a small graphical link in all available 2500-2800 webpages linkable to the company site for 5 years in a site visited by increasing 20,000 a month (according webalyser) and free licensing of 8000 images of maltese flora and countryside for their advertising media! An advert on local TV stations for a month costs some LM2000-LM3000 to produce and advertise it (that what I have been told).

This site has become so complex and time consuming that cannot be mainatined as a hobby anymore!
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Post by robcar » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:13 pm

RB how on earth can you come up with all that twists on botanical jargon in such a short time period :?: - you may not be a poet but you sure do have a quick pen (keyboard)

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Post by IL-PINE » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:28 pm

You amazed me! :) Prosit!

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:26 am

Well not really, in the main a site like this is all about the content, I don't think that people come here for that sort of stuff. I don't mean don't make the site attractive, but not at any cost. Personally I just zoom through the homepage because apparently I have to, to visit the forum, and I hate waiting for the damn applet to load, even for 3 seconds.

I think 3-5 seconds loading/waiting is worth the smooth animation which gives a little wow effect and professional touch for the first time visitor. For a recurrent visitor like yourself, you can either bookmark www.maltawildplants.com/forum to enter the forum immediately or www.maltawildplants.com/WIldPlants_index.html as the main index.


As you might not be aware off, you can enter the forum (or many main webpages) from any webpage on the site by the simple pop down menu under the title logo.
http://www.maltawildplants.com/News.html#WP_News_18

Another thing, this popdown menu comes before the 3-5 second loading time applet, so you can skip the waiting too. Everything is well thought :wink:


Despite all this, I will try to convert to swf and decrease the loading time from 3sec to 2sec! (becasue this is what we are talking about in terms of what the visitor experiences!)



Regard style we have different tastes. In my opinion, the Maltese are a bit materialistic and wants to see some wow-effects in a site, film, anything... Again, it is not something excessive, but a small picture-transistion animation.
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Post by RB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:58 am

I have one answer:

http://www.useit.com/

The top guru of website design and probably the highest paid web consultant in the world, originator of Nielsen Net Ratings which is probably the highest referenced web statistics agency.

And probably one of the most visited websites in the world, obviously after search engines, news sites, etc.

RB

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Post by RB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:06 am

One small detail about bookmarking http://www.maltawildplants.com/forum which would be ideal - this doesn't work.

This redirects to http://wildplants.marz-kreations.com/forum/ where login is requested.

If the direct bookmarking were possible this would be much better!

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:37 pm

Try this ideal link:
http://www.maltawildplants.com/forum/

:D

Direct linked to the forum as you wish!

I forgot to write / after forum in the prev post.

Would be nice if you can suggest those swf mini tools instead MM Flash
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Post by RB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:33 pm

Hey, I never expected a redirect based on whether the trailing slash is present or not... :scratch: OK that's better.

Re Flash tools, I never used them, the very few occasions where I needed to include a flash animation I used MM Flash, or else it was somebody else doing it.

I just can't remember the name of that apparently useful alternative, I was told the name a couple of times, but as you know I may recognise something but putting a name to it is something else!

Google for something useful you will not be short of suggestions, I unfortunately don't have the time to trial them for you, if the name of that prog comes to mind I'll let you know.

RB

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:43 pm

I think the host messed something with the /slash/ thing. I never dared to check .htaccess so far.

No problem regards the tools, I assumed you had hands-on experience since you mentioned them. I will some search work some day.
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