When greed is not enough

Write here your own ideas and practical suggestions of how to improve the Maltese Environment.

Moderators: MWP admin, IL-PINE

Post Reply
greeny
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Sliema

When greed is not enough

Post by greeny » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:20 pm

Apart taking a large are of the natural landscape, these greedy bird trappers also take the lanes for the citizens. The rude hnter shouted to walk quickly becasue the birds will get 'destroyed' - yeah very sensible dude! This offence is present during all daylight of most days of the week.

1) Where are the Law Enforcement Squad??
2) Where are the tourists?

3) Why I am paying taxes and then I cannot enjoy the Maltese countryside - one of the most beautiful things in Malta compared to rest of Europe during Autumn/Winter!

Also, I am noticing that more bird-trap sites are laid recentely. Hope that the Gov maintains the promise according EU laws regards this thing which is banned in 2008.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

RB
Premium Member
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:07 pm

Post by RB » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:22 pm

If that road in Bahrija is public (but there are no guarantees) then you have a right to be in any part of it for any time.

But still I would not do it because:

1) it is true that the birds themselves would suffer;
2) and anyway I do not agree with confrontation of this type, because;
3) if the activity is legal then he does legally have a right to trap birds and
4) while you do (may) have a right to stand anywhere in the road no good at all will come of it except maybe next time you will find a brick wall.

RB

wolf
Veteran member
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Malta

Post by wolf » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:14 pm

RB - that road is public whatever any moron or two-bit landowner who bought land in the area from ELIZA company says - on the hilltop there are bronze age silos advertised by the MTA on one of their leaflets ( for which you pay btw ) but the area is closed off by a gate ...however there are ways and means to go round this - if you are up to it and by the sound of you ma tantx tiddardar int !!

this country is being hijacked by the few - it is time the silent majority speaks up

wolf

User avatar
MWP admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3142
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Malta
Contact:

Post by MWP admin » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:20 pm

Here I PERFECTLY agree with Wolf and Greeny. RB, in these cases the attitude is not if and if, but it should be that lanes and open countryside is by right for the public.

I am sure that because few bullies who in their mind have the equations:

[ Land = Birds = money] and
[Ramblers = no birds = no Money] and
[Illegal gates / signs + Intimidation = No ramblers = Land];


the much larger portion of public who remain silent, has to suffer intimidation and dont explore beutiful sites around the coasts of Malta. As an end result of this, all of us end up in the same few 'public' spaces such as crowded Buskett, Mtahleb and San Anton, weekend after weekend.


So in this respect I encoarage the work that Ramblers Association Malta do to make this goal a reality, but unf it all depends on the Big Bosses who rules the country (and Big Bosses are interested in BIGGER Pockets!)


Returning to prev point, I dont know how few hundreds of bulleys have a better say than hundred thousands of people, and why the latter do not show up to environmental demonstrations while the former are always united as a big gang in such demonstrations.
Stephen Mifsud
Administrator

{Comments} {Donation} {Recommendations}

greeny
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Sliema

More salt on the wound

Post by greeny » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:27 pm

I agree with wolf and mwp argument.

So, because of these hunters and trappers (most probably performing either illegal ownership of the land, or illegal catching of species), the rest 90% of public living on the most beautiful islands of the Mediterranean have to be restricted from going to such places below:

PS: they are taken from our Malta RB, not Hollywood
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Sdravko
Veteran member
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Marburg/ Germany

Post by Sdravko » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:14 pm

i agree 100% that you should not surrender your countryside to bird trappers and other morons. maybe next time i am in Malta i join a few ramblers activities. its kind of safer. :D

wolf
Veteran member
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Malta

Post by wolf » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:33 pm

Sdravko - with 75 people on our Gozo walk this wekk it is probably too safe for you ....however despite having various nationalities on our walks we have never had the honour of a Bulgarian amongst us - so you wud be a first

cheers

wolf

wolf
Veteran member
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Malta

Post by wolf » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:54 pm

Greeny - re your pic bahrija view 3 this is the area known as Ras ir-Raheb. In meeting with Minister Tonio Birg it was revealed that a squatter is still sitting there despite his lease being expired - moreover the Minister is on record as saying - here I quote fom RAM site
Regarding the archaeological and historical sites that are held in private property, the Minister clarified that areas that have been taken over by Government through a President's proclamation prior to 1994, even though not paid for by the Government, such as Ras ir-Raheb, can be legally accessed by the public and not even the owner can prohibit access
We have it in black on white here from the Minister

MWP - may I add another bit to your equation
ramblers = numbers = access

the article in this link proves this [url]http://www.ramblersmalta.jointcomms.com/may1006.htm[/url

It is not my intention to do RAM publicity here ( personally I prefer roaming the countryside on my own without fear ) but to highlight this very very real problem of free access to some of the most beautiful places on the islands

wolf

RB
Premium Member
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:07 pm

Post by RB » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:34 pm

I may have been somewhat misunderstood.

My message was - Be reasonable. There are various conflicting activities taking place on this little rock.

The fact that you may not agree with what someone else is doing, does not generally make it the right decision to react in a confrontational manner, especially when the activity is legal, like it or not.

I would now not expect anyone to tell me not to pass from that road as it is now confirmed to be public, yet still I would not spend 20 minutes within 1 meter of those "gabjetti" either, for the reasons I gave initially - right or no right.

By the same reasoning one would choose to swim right underneath an angler's rod, since one has a right to, just as the angler has a right to fish in that particular spot.

Confrontation rarely gets you anywhere. It's true that some trappers/hunters have a bad attitude, but not all of them do. One thing I am constantly amazed when I visit Gozo is just what a big difference in attitude these people have, they often tell you not to worry and to pass right by their nets and to be careful not to trip, bla bla bla - the difference is truly unbelievable. We always say "bongu" and "grazzi" after this and this little effort is "insurance" for our next visit.

Let's put it this way - Many times we "find ourselves" in places that we really have no right to be in, so a bit of social lubricant works wonders.

RB

User avatar
MWP admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3142
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Malta
Contact:

Post by MWP admin » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:04 pm

The basic point here is not the way of confronting them or not to play the fool near a gabjetta of a fierce trapper, but we are asking if these cages are allowed so close to public lanes, and if so, what effect they have on our degrading tourism. Apart from that, they spoil the peaceful fun of a walk in the countryside for any local.

If you allow (close an eye) for one case, you allow all, and the word travels quick between these guys with the result that soon the the country lanes become also bandid areas! Just my speculation!

Last Friday I was watching TV discussion on Super 1 (regards hunting/trapping) and was amazed with the amount of sms in favour of hunting (5:1 ratio).
Stephen Mifsud
Administrator

{Comments} {Donation} {Recommendations}

wolf
Veteran member
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Malta

Post by wolf » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:20 pm

I would like to apologise if my last effort was seen as a call for confrontation - as RB rightly says we are too many people on a small rock to afford that...however it is up to the hunters trappers to learn to live and let live ( and to be fair some of them do but not all mind you. I was walking this weekend on the cliff edge at rdum tal-vigarju and believe me it sounded like a bloody village feast - AND YOU DO FEEL INTIMIDATED whether you like it or not - of course the alternative is to walk there in mid-July but none of us really wants that RB right ? Neverthelss RB you are right - some of these guys are ok and even helpful - hell I sometimes spent an hour or two in quasi-friendly arguments

In other words I really believe these hunters etc should realise that the countryside is not theirs for the taking .....I have just looked up some personal websites of tourists who come to Malta and their negative remarks on trappers are vociferous - in short hnting is a bad advert for the country ( never mind that every government licks their sorry asses... )

MWP - do not be surprised by the super one poll - if there is one thing I ( perversely ) admire about these people it is their sense of unity and COMMITMENT - one thing that is found wanting in the environmental camp .....REMEMBER that many many people felt deeply shocked by the ODZ revision this summer but only a thousand ( at best ) felt the COMMITMENT to stand up to be counted ...to our credit the hardcore folk on this forum were there


cheers

wolf

Sdravko
Veteran member
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Marburg/ Germany

Post by Sdravko » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:50 am

regarding tourism and hunting/trapping i would say that in Germany almost 50% of all tv broadcasts about Malta are about hunting, trapping and the bad treatment hunters/trappers give the tourists.
only one such movie in Germany or Great Britain during the hunting season in spring when people book theit summer holidays costs Malta thousands of tourists and millions of pounds.
Maybe Malta should think about improving its image in Europe. Its not just about who you want to like you, its about BIG MONEY.

wolf
Veteran member
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Malta

Post by wolf » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:41 pm

Very well put Sdravko - cannot agree more. Apart from the environmental damage to fauna and flora hunting and trapping are bad economics in the long run...although in the short term it means more land speculation and buying and selling as hunters try to get their pwn little piece of killing ground

wolf

User avatar
IL-PINE
Premium Member
Posts: 1112
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:55 pm
Location: Qormi
Contact:

Post by IL-PINE » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:52 pm

I agree with you, but to be frank, I prefer Zeppi the hunter with his own hut and cages, then Caqnu the developer who will destroy everything to build a big supermarket......

User avatar
MWP admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3142
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Malta
Contact:

Post by MWP admin » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:09 pm

Yes wolf, I agree with yr prev point - I also noted how united they are. They look they are in very large numbers and make their opinions well heard.

Hope MTA tackles this issue and make some enphacy on MRA(E?) Minister on Rural afffairs (and environment?) with regards to law enforcement on trapping next 2008.

What I cannot understand is why the authorities do not put out dozens of skilled environmental officers roaming around. When I am for an outing in the countryside, I always notice lots of suspicious environmental law-infringments, and I am no expert of what is right or not.
Stephen Mifsud
Administrator

{Comments} {Donation} {Recommendations}

greeny
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Sliema

Post by greeny » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:17 pm

I would like to see the green wardens in action too (which should have a similar effect as the local wardens).

What I suggest for tourism vs. hunting for a start is to ban all hunting and trapping 100m away from any touristic site such as Hagar Qim, Mnajdra, Ggantija, Ghar il-Kbir/cart ruts, and other examples that Mr.Wolf would definitely add more to the list.

I regret that I did not took a photo of a trapper, 1m away from ghar il-kbir with large birds in the cages (definitely not finches). I dont know why this is so difficult to impliment.

robcar
Veteran member
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:09 pm
Location: Malta

Post by robcar » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:48 pm

Again, it is all a question of whether the activity - hunting, trapping or whatever is against the law or not - if the hunting or trapping being carried out is legal there is nothing 'wrong' even though many may not like it or agree with it (I here include myself and probably most forum members)

I am no environmental law expert, but as far as I know it is not illegal to trap finches (obviously in the open season) around Ghar il-Kbir or a number of other touristic sites - therefore wardens would not be able to do anything in this case although there are many other law-breaking activities that they could tackle

greeny
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Sliema

Post by greeny » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:47 pm

Yes, there are no restrictions in fact, and I was just writing a suggestion = No trapping/hunting 50-100m around prominent tourist sites - What do you think?

Post Reply