Which Chenopodium is this pls!

Requests about identification of wild plants in Malta and Gozo. (Please include precise details and pictures to help the experts in their ID process)

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Which Chenopodium is this pls!

Post by IL-PINE » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:31 am

As usual found another 'Chenopodium' species.
Which species might be this?
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Post by MWP admin » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:02 pm

http://leroux01.club.fr/chenopode_blanc ... 9_2000.jpg

Is there something which make you doubt about C. album? The leaves are not much different from C. album. Where you found that?

PS - remember next time to resize/crop the pics below 920pix please, both so as they are displayed immediately and for less kb consumption of the forum.
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Post by IL-PINE » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:49 pm

ups sorry!

10x!

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Post by MWP admin » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:23 pm

No Problem, So are you convinced about C. albus or not yet ? :P
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Post by jackpot » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:31 pm

why not C. murale?

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Post by MWP admin » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:45 pm

Seems you have to do some research about this one Pine. Tell us if you conclude the case.
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Post by IL-PINE » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:01 pm

well it seems I have to go and collect some seeds to finally conclude it! Thanks mwp and jackpot

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Post by MWP admin » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:15 am

I am studying in detail the Chenopodiaceae this September (and hence a number of posts!), and I must say that Jackpot is more right with C. murale. The serratee leaves is a rather important characteristic of this species. C. album sometimes have one pair of teeth at the lower portion of the lamina, or no teeth at all. Your specimen has conspicuous serrate margin so C. murale is my opinion.
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Post by MWP admin » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:28 pm

I checked this post for a Chenopodium species that I found in a field which had leaves with dentate margins. I was leaning towards C. murale, but wait a moment - my species had deltate (triangular) leaf form, not rhombic/eliptical as described by some flora, (Haslam, flora iberica, Wild Flowers of the Mediterranean)) and as shown on pine's photo?

Do you think this is C. murale? I have my little doubt only becasue the leaf base is not cuneate but truncate (hance a triangular shape rather than rhombic)

C. album should be excluded on the same rile, as well it should not have such conspicuous teeth.

And what about C. ficifolium? Seems it has different shaped, but also dentate leaves .

These Chenopods makes me mad! I already have 4 cases now to research. Seems that ineed to visit the university soon.!
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Post by RutgerB » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:23 pm

C. ficifolium; look at http://www.s-weeds.net/familjer/centros ... icifol.jpg
De first pair of lobes on the leaves are very big, an easy thing to id it from.

Stephen's Chenop. looks like C. album. The leaves look thin and are mealy.

Wished I could say more about C. murale, but it is very rare here.

Enclosed a picture of C. album (the leaves are very variable toothed) with purple in it from Belgium.
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Post by MWP admin » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:37 pm

Thanks rutgerB, the slight doubt on C. ficifolium is now eliminated.

Your speceis is likely to be Chenopodium giganteum - dentate margin and purple young leaves.


http://images.google.com.mt/images?hl=e ... a=N&tab=wi

and

http://www.jardinpotager.com/JLBchenopodium.jpg



Consequently, I made a bit of research and I am quite convinced that my species is Chenopodium suecicum (syn C.viride), which also have conspicuous teeth. I need to check the seeds which should have furrows. What do you think about my conclusion ?
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Post by IL-PINE » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:20 pm

its better to check the seeds :lol:
I am totally confused by these Chenopodium, I need to read about them more.

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Post by RutgerB » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:09 pm

Stephen, thanks for the id. of C. giganteum, wouldnt have guessed that! I'll go back to check on the seeds also. Must admit you do your research thorough. Looked in 'Den Nordiska Floran' and I think you're right about C suecicum (in Holland this is not distinguished from C. album, because of the great resemblance). Looking forward to see the keeled tepals and the rounded edges of the seeds (Stace, New Flora o.t. BI).
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Post by MWP admin » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:32 pm

Hi Rut..

I am glad that I identified C. giganteum for you.

I am still undecided about my Chenopodium, becasue C. suecicum is cosidered quite rare in Malta (usually attributed to Northern countries), and I found this plant in several places. Many morphological things fits but ?? Maybe C. murale is a better option for Malta. I still have to do further research, but I dont have many literature available.

Anyway, if you can submit some info on C. suecicum, I would be very glad.
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Post by RutgerB » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:35 pm

Fl. Europaea, vol 1, 1993; 'Chenopodium suecicum; Like C. album but usually a rather bright, glaucescent green, somewhat farinose when young; stems not tinged with red; cauline leaves larger, ovate rhombic, with sharp ascending teeth; cymes rather lax; testa with more numerous, closer and deeper furrows.'

Flora von Deutschland, 1996; (I hope the translation goes well;); 'Middle- and sidelobes broad, many teeth. Plant green, when it starts to grow with hairs, hairless later on. Up to 1m. Not densely branched.'

Stace 1992; 'Plant < 1 m, not tinged with red (except rarely in the leaf-axils) seeds often <1.25 mm in longest diameter, usually produced well before frosts; tepals usually well keeled.'
from key the difference with C.album ; 'seeds with obtuse to rounded edges as seen in narrowest profile.'

Den Nordiskan Floran (translated it the best I can); Stems usually upright, green. Leaves pale-green or glaucescent green with sharp teeth. Flowers in loose bundles, petals keeled. Seeds 1.1-1.6 mm. round like a circle, with rounded edges. To be sure its not C. abum you have to look at the seeds. '

Remark about C. murale; Leaves are shiny green on top.
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Post by jackpot » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:05 am

I am quite sure that this is Atriplex hortensis var rubra :)

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:00 pm

I found 2 contrasting images for Atriplex hortensis:

This which looks similar

Image






and this, which looks unsimilar

Image

Image
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Post by jackpot » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:37 pm

...and you will find this one in the next edition :-D
These species vary so much!
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Post by MWP admin » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:01 pm

In my opinion, Rutger's plant is Chenopodium giganteum, or at least the ones I photographed from Malta with young leaves purple, while the rest green are that sp. From the little I seen, Atriplex hortensis var rubrum has all leaves coloured.
:roll: :?:
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Post by MWP admin » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:56 pm

I read some info on Atriplex hortensis and personally I dont think RutgerB's (purple one) or my (green) specimen are A. hortensis.

All descriptions mention large leaves of about 15-20cm


http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plants/p ... 1157.shtml

http://www.floridata.com/ref/a/atri_hor.cfm

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MV103
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Post by RutgerB » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:33 pm

Stephen, thanks again for the id. of C. giganteum. On a forum in the Netherlands I posted this picture as well. Learned to recognise C. probstii in the same session. Maybe worth looking out for on Malta.

http://forum.waarneming.nl/forum/index. ... opic=37084
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Post by MWP admin » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:21 am

Yes, I was sure about that one.

I think JP's is also the same spp (though one have to see a large part of the plant to be certain), and so should be still in time to make the correction for his next Edition book thanks to MaltaWildplants.com forum.
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Post by MWP admin » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:28 am

Rutger, I dont think Chenopodium probstii is the same one I showed, because our plant seams to have less broad leaves and longer petiolated.

I am studying the plant, but C. suecicum is excluded. Actually I am waiting the seeds. Could be C. murale, but there is something not convincing me (!?)
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