Pine tree but which?

Requests about identification of wild plants in Malta and Gozo. (Please include precise details and pictures to help the experts in their ID process)

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Pine tree but which?

Post by MWP admin » Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:01 pm

Found this pine-like tree (not P. halepensis) cultivated and could not figure out what species is. The leaves did not smell much (maybe I already had first symptoms of the cold and could not smell much!)

Pinus pinea perhaps?
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Post by Sdravko » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:42 pm

leaves look long, could be pinea. impossible without more info (fruit). where did it grow? MEPA?

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Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:22 am

I'm not really "into" pines, but why did you exclude halepensis completely? Which identifiers did you use to exclude this? These could help with determining the species. Young halepensis are rather variable from the adult.

The pic is a bit too close up, the general shape of the tree would have given more info.

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:54 pm

There was an Aleppo pine not far away so I could not the differences. Leaves longer and darker and not so nicely perfumed. Tree was young and has nno fruits. Its a cultivated thing (St.Venera), nothing special, just want to know a bit more on everything.
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Post by jackpot » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:15 pm

ok- I can tell you that this tree never will produce fruits in its life! :D

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Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:26 pm

Coz its male I presume?

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:28 pm

So which is correct:

(1) this species does not form cones or
(2) this specimen is the male form and obiosly it will not form fruit or
(3) this species does not form cones in Malta?

(with reference to your wicked :D ) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by jackpot » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:16 pm

you said: Tree was young and has no fruits.
I said: ...this tree never will produce fruits in its life!
I did not say it does not form cones :D
Btw: all plants of Pinus form cones (but never fruits in gymnosperms)! :wink:

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:50 pm

That's why I always used cones in my last reply-post because I felt that your comment was referring to this fruit-cones jargon.

The thing is that Flora Europea says "Fruit a cone which is usually woody" so it is not easy for students to know what is what sometimes!

Anyway, the point is that strictly speaking, we should refer to the "seeding structures" as cones rather than fruit.

And what about the species name of this Pine?
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Post by RB » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:08 pm

From the pic, I do not really see anything different to a halepensis, the young trees look just like your photo.

Of course it could be something very close, but from the pic I don't really think one can say.

It all points that way, colour, everything - with colour being quite determining.

Halepensis is born grey-green, but then goes that bright green colour when it is about 40-50cm+ and will seem rather more robust than the adult specimen when it is actively growing rapidly in good conditions (which does not mean anything special for a tree that can practically grow on rock), say from about from 1m up to 2-3m.

But again the photo. Do you have one of the complete plant?

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Post by IL-PINE » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:16 pm

well it is not my species for sure :D

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:56 pm

:lol: Good one :lol:

Anyway, I am attaching a large photo of the tree - hope it helps. I want to add that I am no expert in trees but from my observation, the leaves did neither look lile the normal P. halepensis, nor had that fragrant smell when the leaves where crushed, while the reproductive part was somehow new to my eyes!

The young(?) tree was not more from 2m
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Post by jackpot » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:05 am

Yes, also in Flora Europaea are still hundreds of mistakes! Anyway (just the correct explanation): Gymnosperms do not have fruits because the seeds are "-" and Angiosperms only found a way to cover the seed by a fruit wall... but this is not so important here :)

This large pic of il-Pine ( :lol: ) reminds me of a young Pinus canariensis with the longer leaves. :idea:

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Post by RB » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:26 am

For me this is a halepensis at 2m high :wink:

I have never seen one which looked any different at that size, it looks perfectly typical of a robustly growing young specimen. It seems like a roadside-planted example which would explain the (relatively) good condition it found itself in.

Given another 5-10 years it will look a lot more like the adult, since the growth rate will start to slow down. The branches will be more - and the needles shorter.

They look very lush at this age, don't they! Which is why jerks are attracted to these "free" xmas trees. :evil:

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Post by MWP admin » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:35 am

Well I dont know at this point, but RB, the leaves where very long and they had no smell - should these be ignored ?
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Post by Sdravko » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:53 am

definitely no canariensis (third needle missing, needles too thick) and most probably no halepensis. second picture confirms pinea, at least 99.999%. in 10 years you can start harvesting the nuts unles the rats get them before you.

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