Carpobrotus

Requests about identification of wild plants in Malta and Gozo. (Please include precise details and pictures to help the experts in their ID process)

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Tetraclinis
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Carpobrotus

Post by Tetraclinis » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:13 pm

Is this Carpobrotus acinaciformis pls?
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Post by Tetraclinis » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:17 pm

MWP, how can I edit my posts?

I want to add that despite its nice flowers, this plant is rather invasive and should be controlled, since it leaves little space for native species

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Post by RB » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:14 am

I know it as C. edulis.

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Post by IL-PINE » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:38 pm

agree with rb and agree with your 2nd comment Tetraclinis. It is increasing in one of the most threatened biosystems of our islands, the sand dunes. See places like Armier, Ghadira and other sandy bays. It easily invades and destroys the habitat for other plants.

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Post by MWP admin » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:02 pm

For the moment try and revise your posts to avoid mistakes :-)

AFAIK, C. acinaciformis do not exist in Malta, all of these are C. edulis.
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Post by RB » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:07 pm

Very easy to rip out though, pine. Tets, I'm guessing that pic was taken on the north-east coast of Gozo?
Pls advise...

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Post by jackpot » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:45 am

Both are present in Malta: Carpobrotus edulis var. rubescens is widely distributed, the yellow Carpobrotus edulis is rare, the extremely similar C. acinaciformis is very rarely grown. Distinguish: The leaf widens above the middle - the leaf is widened at the base.

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Post by Tetraclinis » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:20 pm

Sorry for my absentism, quite busy at Univ.


Strange, but my tutor at the Univ (the famous one) claims that C. acinaciformis does not exist in Malta and it is a mis-identification of C. edulis. The difference according Flora Europaea lies in the colour of the filaments of the stamens, and the way the leave thickness is distributed.

This is a pop is photographed from M'Forn. I am making a study about Aizo's

I can't check the stamens at the moment that there are no flowers, and the leaves come in various thickness forms!?, though on average looks like C. edulis.

Jackpots, where you claim to have found C. acinaciformis in Malta?

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Post by RB » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:50 pm

Well I got the photo location right ;-)

JP et al, I saw a Carpobrotus with leaves only about 3/4ths of normal size. I don't think it is just stunted, it is a large specimen and observed during different seasons. What is this?

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Post by MWP admin » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:54 pm

I am out for a party, but possibly Lampranthus. Check later (signed MWP)
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Post by RB » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:25 pm

Enjoy the party, but no Lamps. It's a Carpobrotus in everything but size, and again it may be nothing special - maybe it is stunted after all. I'll try to sample it and give it a good life :-D and we'll see how it goes.

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:49 am

RB, a pic would be very useful in this case. Is the flower purple or yellow? Large or considerably smaller from C. edulis?

Tetraclinis, as I said I and, if I am understanding well, also RB never seen C. acinaciformis . Weber might have taken the info from a previous old book (Haslam et al, 1977) which mentions this species but in my and your tutor opinion, it is a misidentification. For the benefit of the doubt we give weber et al the word to give us the location of C.ac. and you can confirm it for us. One is innocent until proved guilty! :P
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Post by RB » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:31 am

Sorry no flowers. Carpobrotus has a relatively short flowering period IMHO. The plant is at the Ghargur garden (top of the world I think the place is called??) that overlooks the valley and Bahar Ic-Caghaq.

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:05 pm

Is it this RB ? Flower size 3-4cm accross.
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Post by RB » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:04 pm

No, certainly not.

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Post by jackpot » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:29 am

hupps, I missed his topic, sorry.
We definitely found a mat of about 2 square metres Carpobrotus acinaciformis 2002 on Manuel Island east coast, together with a hybrid of Matthiola incana ssp incana x M. incana ssp. melitensis, growing in the centre of the mat. We had a closer look due to the presence of the hybrid!
I found another example in 2005 at the Blue Grotto (only 1 plant together with hundreds of the red C. edulis). Interestingly, only this 1 plant was in flower- edulis not. Therefore, I had a closer look for the reason, otherwise I would not have recognized the species. In a pot of Hagar Qim restaurant, acinaci was cultivated in 2003. They also had in a container the yellow flowering edulis as well as Lampranthus and other succulents. Btw: no misidentification- determination was made by 3 of us... :)
So, I do not agree: acinaci is not present in Malta but I agree that it is extremely rare (and I think "thank goodness" because I learned from other countries that it seems to be much more invasive as edulis. I also agree that it is extremely difficult to distinguish from the distance and you need luck (or a reason as I described before) to have a closer look.
Are you satisfied? :)

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Post by RB » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:29 am

JP, do you have any idea about the "smaller" Carpobrotus, as per my posts above?

I have often seen Carpobrotus in poor condition, etc, but still the size of the leaves was quite constant. The one I saw had leaves which were noticeably smaller, even now, when it is well watered.

Thanks for any info

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Post by jackpot » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am

RB: sorry, I have no idea about a relationship between conditions and variability in Carpobrotus. I am not a Aizoaceae specialist, but I know that determination (for me) is difficult :-D
Also, I am not really convinced from the literature about the differences in Carpos, we should need a person who study this genus.

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Post by MWP admin » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:42 pm

Tetra its your turn now to check the sites and tell us what you find!


JP: How do you distinguish edulis from acinic? Is it from the purple stamens as the keys of Haslam (=Flora eu) suggest?

Are you familiar with the photo of the other Aizoaceae with smaller red flowers?
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Post by jackpot » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:27 am

in my last comment I meant Crassulaceae & Aizoaceae, distinguish: see the 7th comment in this topic :)

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Post by MWP admin » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:53 am

Thanks JP,
Yes, but I seen all shapes of leaves in the same large population of C. edulis of Qbajjar, that I gave up about this distinguishing feature. I think RB also mentioned this fact. Haslam (which I assume she took it from flora europaea) states both this feature about the leaves AND the colour of the stamens (C. acinaciformis = purple, C. edulis = yellow), and so far I always seen yellow stamens, even in the book.

I also do not know if it is referred to the whole stamen (filament included) or only the immature anthers. If it is the latter, there is a problem since the purple anthers may be covered with yellow pollen giving no hint of purple in C. acinaciformis.

Il-pine (& Tetra if he is still alive) we should give a bit of priority to this plant as it is interesting. I believe JP is right but I would like to see purple stamens :lol:
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Post by jackpot » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:49 pm

ok- here it comes :-D
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Post by MWP admin » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:31 pm

E X C E L L E N T

Thanks to JP we have a good indication how C.edulis and C. acinaciformis looks.
:geek: =D>
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